OrchidSafari
Topic: Intermediate and Cool Masdevallias
Moderator: Dale Borders
Wednesday June 21, 2000

A Culture Handout is at the end of the discussion

Present were:
Jade
Super
John_in_Arcadia,_CA
CJ-Orchidflowerchild
Kathy_in_N_Calif
Zeynep
Ellensmithown
neil_-Israel
James_in_Fresno
Thomas_in_Richmond_VA
Regular_Jose_in_Lisbon
Barbara,_N._CA
Josh
marleneann
jeanne23_from_oz
profpam
ahorchid
Robert_in_Long_Beach,_MS
Steve_in_the_Adirondacks

Kathy_in_N_Calif
Everyone, Dale Borders is here - aka 'Fulcrum'. He will be presenting on Masdevallias tonight.

fulcrum
Any avid masdevallia growers here tonight?

Ellensmithown
I'm fairly new to masdevallias but my collection is growing rapidly. I have about 60 plants.

fulcrum
Aah. You're 'one of us', then! That can sure happen!!! I presume you find them rewarding.

Ellensmithown
Getting better at them. Have air conditioning in the greenhouse now so they look happy.

fulcrum
Good. The AC helps with air movement, but it's important to keep an eye on humidity.

Ellensmithown
I filled large containers with water with bricks to absorb and have in front of airconditioner vent.

Jade
I have a bunch I inherited but haven't started to totally fuss over them. I am getting closer.

Kathy_in_N_Calif
I'm thinking about getting a few now that I have a swamp cooler to put them in front of. I have M. discoidea which isn't happy. I have a Sunset Jaguar hybrid. I like the chaparensis types, spots you know! *G* I have a tuerckheimeii which finally loves it being in front of the cooler... I find IMHO that many of the warm tolerant types are 'all the same' (like the 'Marguerite' types).

fulcrum
Kathy, Troy Meyers now has chaparensis in flasks. Just germinated. The Bakers have a culture sheet for discoidea. Probably worth a dollar!

Kathy_in_N_Calif
I'll look for the culture sheet. It has been declining for me for years. Thanks! Discoidea is one which Marilyn Light wishes she could get ahold of. Manys the time I almost mailed it off to her!

fulcrum
It likes rather thermostatic temps, Kathy. Min 55F and max c. 70F.

Super
I need very heat tolerant and spider mite resistant. Will I ever grow one? This is as good a question to start

fulcrum
M. livingstoneana is very heat tolerant. Low humidity is a haven for mites, though.

Super
That is a start....

profpam
My M. Kimballiana is now in bloom again and appears to be quite heat tolerant. I live inland in southern California and temperature is averaging 80 degrees even with my swamp cooler. This one is thriving. [M. Kimballiana = caudata x veitchiana --KB]

Zeynep
Dale I have approximately 40 Masdevallia species, and have been growing them for the past one year. So far so good thanks to some friends who shares their knowledge :-) Approximately how many Masdevallias do you have?

fulcrum
I have c. 110 species, Zeynep

Barbara,_N._CA
I have only 1 M. yungasensis in my whole greenhouse, is doing very well right in front of the cooler. I bought about 10 Masd. divisions a few years back. They didn't stay very long. I never try again until I got this one in the drawing at our meeting.

Ellensmithown
I have an infracta x caudata that is covered with flowers. Komoda in Hawaii has warmth tolerant ones like Ken Dole. My favorite is Misfit, which is always in bloom. [Ken Dole = coccinea x tonduzii --KB]

fulcrum
Infracta's a good parent. It lends more than it's share of heat tolerance. I have very few hybrids, but seem to magicially acquire veitchiana hybrids.... They're all pretty nice. Oriole and Circe are probably my favorites.

marleneann
What colour is Misfit, Ellen?

Ellensmithown
Misfit is yellow, pink and white

Kathy_in_N_Calif
Misfit is paivaeana x attenuata for those wondering. Circe is schroederiana x veitchiana. Oriole is veitchiana x reichenbachiana. Wish I had pics of the hybrids but I don't.

fulcrum
Masdevallia reichenbachiana is one parent.

CJ-Orchidflowerchild
I have one that is doing wonderfully. In bud, now! I love my little sprucei. It is even cute out of bloom...

fulcrum
Aah. That is nice.... You'd probably like M. erinacea then.

jim4eq
Wow, that erinacea looks like me on Monday morning, before the shave and shower!!

fulcrum
Well..... Some people STILL like it, Jim.

Ellensmithown
Do many species bloom sequentially on their spikes?

fulcrum
There are MANY that are successive bloomers. Successive flower Masdevallias include tovarensis, erinacea, infracta, carruthersiana, carmenensis..... and several others.

fulcrum
M. agaster is much more pleasing.

Zeynep
Dale, can you tell us the size of the plant, and flower please? M. erinacea and agaster.

fulcrum
erinacea has flowers c. 1/4" and agaster has flowers with the corolla c. 1" in diameter. By corolla, I mean flower size exclusive of the 'tails'.

Ellensmithown
Lovely

CJ-Orchidflowerchild
How warmth tolerant is that?

fulcrum
It's an intermediate grower. 60-83F Try Masdevallia livingstoneana. M. mejiana might be another good choice for your conditions.

CJ-Orchidflowerchild
Yes, I am going to get me a meijiana. Love that yellow.

jim4eq
Dale, if I pot in sphagnum, how wet should I keep the moss?

fulcrum
Don't let it dry out, Jim. Using experience with your conditions, water heavily 2 days before the sphag is completely dry.

Kathy_in_N_Calif
With quality water? Maybe a clay pot? Jim's in Miami, would the advice hold true for Jade in Michigan?

fulcrum
My water is good quality and I water heavily nearly every day. My plants are exclusively in sphag and clay. Certainly, water high in TDS can damage a plant. It's probably important to monitor the condition of the sphag and repot frequently.

Barbara,_N._CA
I water my one and only daily, it's in sp. moss, it seems to be doing well, in front of the cooler, only goes up to 75° the most.

Ellensmithown
How much fertilizer do you use and how often?

fulcrum
I fertilize seldom. The high light species tend to appreciate more fertilizer than the low light species.

Zeynep
Fertilization is very controversial, I hear some say do not fertilize, and some says regularly... what do you suggest?

fulcrum
I suggest that if you do fertilize make sure the plants are getting sufficient light for the species and that the pots be flushed regularly if water quality is questionable.

fulcrum
Masdevallia fractiflexa is another good heat tolerant species.

Kathy_in_N_Calif
Now there's a cutie!! Do the caudae always twist around like that? Counter clockwise?

Barbara,_N._CA
Yes, I like that fractiflexa. I must remember the name.

Ellensmithown
Can you give me some low light species?

fulcrum
M. selenites or M. limax. M. selenites is one of my favorite masdevallias, unfortunately I didn't send that to Kathy...

fulcrum
Here's M. encephala

Kathy_in_N_Calif
Now what would/could pollinate that encephala, Dale? Gnats?

Robert_in_Long_Beach,_MS
Maybe a hummingbird? They like tubular flowers. Or maybe a sphinx moth.

fulcrum
I have no idea, Kathy. It isn't AS foul smelling as others in the coriaceae section, though. Troy has seed of fractiflexa in flask, Kathy.

Barbara,_N._CA
What is the front view like? Is the color really purple?

fulcrum
Well, that's a 3/4 view. The portal to the inner flower is quite small. The color in the photo is accurate.

Ellensmithown
Is encephala cool?

fulcrum
Yes. Cool and VERY wet. I have in the cool room with temps of 52-70F year round.

jim4eq
I LOVE the encephala, what temps??

CJ-Orchidflowerchild
Haven't you learned yet? If you like it, it is cool!

fulcrum
Oddly enough, that seems to be the case, CJ.

M. caudata is possibly one of the most extravagant of the genus

Barbara,_N._CA
That is a keeper.

jim4eq
*sniffle* maybe in my new place, I'll get a 2 bedroom and go buy a walk-in meat cooler

Kathy_in_N_Calif
Now, now, I told Dale there were plenty of people interested in cooler specimens too! Besides, CJ, you have an AC unit, no?

CJ-Orchidflowerchild
Not that cool!

fulcrum
Grin. Well, I think I said something similar to that in the handout you made me write, Kathy.

jim4eq
But, for tovarensis I'll need a sweater to visit it, compared to a parka and mukluks for the encephala!!

Robert_in_Long_Beach,_MS
I remember a cool summer evening...but it was in Iceland in July. Oh well...

fulcrum
Jim, tovarensis will grow well in I-C temps but you won't see many flowers. Well, to be truthful, the South Oregon Coast is a very benign climate for growing masdevallias.

Robert_in_Long_Beach,_MS
Here on the Gulf Coast we get mild winters but summers are very hot and humid. Creole Orchids in New Orleans (now defunct) used to grow all kinds of cool things in an air conditioned GH!

jim4eq
I thought tovarensis was I-W?? (You forget, in Miami when we wear sweaters, the snowbirds are running around in shorts and t-shirts)

fulcrum
Well, the three traditional temperature regimes are very arbitrary. Masd. tovarensis will do well in 58-75F, but few blooms. Howzat?

jim4eq
So what IS tovarensis preferred temp then?

fulcrum
52-70F or so..... Jim, check out the Bakers culture sheets. They've got good info for a good price. It's worth a buck to get a recalcitrant plant to bloom or keep it alive. The tools I use the most for masdevallia cultivation are Thesaurus Masdevalliarum and The Bakers culture sheets.

Kathy_in_N_Calif
According to Rhodehamel, tovarensis is W/I with W= 68-80F and I= 55-68F. But the more meaningful stat is the elevation its found at: 4600-9200 ft... in Venezuela

fulcrum
Well, certainly the provenance of the plant is sometimes very important. Quite often though, plants with a wide distribution are very amenable to a large variation in temperature tolerances.... It's always a good idea to try and find the location from which your plant was derived. The same thing applies to reichenbachiana. Plants are very variable in their preferred temperatures due to the wide distribution of the species.

jim4eq
Hmm, guess I should re-do my list, I just have them listed by RH categories. (Gee I need to fill a few hours, LOL)

Kathy_in_N_Calif
I use it to judge how far out of temp range I can 'tweak' a plant's culture. Like I 'know' what I'm doing... HA!! I'm the one with discoidea declining year after year!!

marleneann
So Dale...I don't grow Masd.....But I would like to try a plant....which one would you rec. for a subtropical climate?....one that would flower its head off!

fulcrum
Well, livingstoneana, mejiana, ampullacea, among several others.

Robert_in_Long_Beach,_MS
I'd like to grow ANYTHING as well as that plant.

CJ-Orchidflowerchild
Marleneann, go for sprucei!

CJ-Orchidflowerchild
What are some good warmth tolerant species in pinks and red?

fulcrum
Those colors are commonly associated with high altitude species, but M. hirtzii isn't bad. VERY tolerant of warm temps and a rampant grower and bloomer.

CJ-Orchidflowerchild
M. hirtzii is sounding better and better, Dale.

jim4eq
Yeah, so many of the warmer ones are the Chinese lantern types, like tubular bells. I like the wide open ones more, (of course)

CJ-Orchidflowerchild
You and me both, brother!

Kathy_in_N_Calif
Who are some of your favorite sources, Dale? J&L? Tho' Jim's source through Ecuagenera wasn't bad either!

fulcrum
Well, I import many of my plants from Ecuador. Many are trades, and some are gifts....

Kathy_in_N_Calif
Any more pics? Did we go through all of them already??

fulcrum
No, I don't think so. I only supplied photos that were germane to the discussion or comment.

Kathy_in_N_Calif
Well, lets show some anyway. They are great pics in and of themselves!

fulcrum
Well.... This is M. princeps.

Kathy_in_N_Calif
I think this is M. chaparensis

fulcrum
Here is M. prodigiosa

jim4eq
M. prodigiosa is cool, isn't it? (Since I like it.....)

fulcrum
Yup.

Kathy_in_N_Calif
Dale, are these caudae typical for the chaparensis or the princeps species? Or should they be flatter?? Just a fine point, they are lovely either way.

fulcrum
Well, the photos all illustrate a typical flower. I don't understand 'flatter' (Well, not in this context). Do you mean more planar; in line with the plane of the flower? princeps has sharply reflexed caudae and besides size and some other things separates it from the closely allied goliath with which it's sympatric.

Kathy_in_N_Calif
That's exactly what I wanted to know!

Kathy_in_N_Calif
M. bicolor

CJ-Orchidflowerchild
How warmth tolerant is bicolor, Dale?

fulcrum
bicolor is noted for being one of the 'first' warm growers. It's a widespread species with a LOT of similarly appearing relatives.

CJ-Orchidflowerchild
Ah, good. Can it take up to ninety once in a while?

fulcrum
Yes, but not for than a few hours and make sure that the humidity is raised if possible. Try to cool the plant down to at least 60F or less at night.

CJ-Orchidflowerchild
Yes, I can do sixty at night, but it may get to 90F a couple of times in the heat of the day in the summer...

jim4eq
Here's my zahlbruckneri, a warm(er) grower. about 1cm corona (see Dale, I'm learning!) with 1 cm tails.

fulcrum
That's 'corolla', Jim. Corona is a brand of beer isn't it?

fulcrum
M. deformis is one of my favorites. Cool grower. It's a very miniature plant; only 2.5" tall flowers are that large and a plant in a 2" pot may have 40 flowers at one time.

jim4eq
*sniffle* I may have to move further north than N. Miami, maybe Ft.Lauderdale??

fulcrum
This picture illustrates M. citrinella. Temps of 58-75F. Very miniature plant.

jeanne23_from_oz
Beautiful colour

jim4eq
I love the citrinella, looks like a little spotty toad with it's tongue hanging out

Jade
Its really is quite charming.

fulcrum
Well, it's atypical for many of the genus in that the lateral sepals are adnate to each other, but not to the dorsal sepal. Doesn't have the sepaline tube so common in many of the species.

jim4eq
yeah, citrinella reminds me of mejiana and ariasii

Jade
Dale this was really an informative and pleasant presentation. You have inspired me to get to work on my inherited plants. Thank you so much for your presentation. I must leave. I look forward to chatting with you again.

fulcrum
Thanks, Jade! Masdevallias are a lot of fun and easy to cultivate! Hope I 'infected' you!

--END

Masdevallia cultivation.
By Dale Borders, copyright 6/2000

Masdevallias have earned a reputation as hard to grow. Most species are easily cultivated though, if provided the conditions that are important to the species considered. With a genus numbering c. 425 species there is considerable variation in the habitat and usually these conditions must be met, or approached, to achieve success. The willingness of a grower to expend/allocate money and space is proportional to the success achieved with many members of this wonderful genus.

Outlined below are the reasons, in descending order of importance, that I believe are important for successful cultivation and bloom.

TEMPERATURE

Many masdevallia species are highly endemic and some species are considered refractory if habitat conditions aren't closely met. Most species of masdevallia will do well in an environment that varies considerably from that of the habitat if minimum night time temperatures are approached or met. Temperatures in great excess (10-12°F) of habitat maximum temperatures must be accompanied by increased humidity to reduce transpiration and maintenance of plant turgor. Periods of excessive temperatures impede the plants' ability to function normally and lack of a night-time respite will soon become fatal. Symptoms of excessive temperatures are dry aborted growths, pleated growths, and premature drop of mature leaves. As the leaves of masdevallia are in most cases perennial, loss of leaves younger two years old signify plant stress and conditions must immediately be ameliorated. A fungal infection is similarly manifested, unfortunately. Close scrutiny and review of ambient diurnal temperatures is necessary to determine cause of uncharacteristic leaf drop. Fungal infections most often occur in the cooler months and leaf drop in months other than that most often signify excessive temperatures.

HUMIDITY

Most masdevallia species are found in areas in which Relative Humidity is high (65-80%, or more) and are intolerant of extended periods of low RH. Appropriate humidity is a necessary buffer against excessive temperatures and protects the plant against excessive water loss and reduced plant turgor.

AIR MOVEMENT

Masdevallias dislike stagnant air and will show their resentment by chronic bacterial infections. Many of the species have inflated leaf sheaths in which water can collect and provide a habitat for pathogenic bacteria. Air movement should be vigorous enough to cause some leaf movement.

LIGHT

Inappropriate light levels most often affect blooming, but too little light will often cause weak, soft and flaccid growths that are more susceptible to disease. Leaf thickness and shape is often a good indicator of light requirements. Thick, heavy leaves are an indication of high light requirements while thin, lance shaped leaves are usually an indication of low light species.

COMPOST

A large variety of composts are used for masdevallias. The most important criteria is that it drain quickly but remain moist. Live sphagnum moss seems to invigorate masdevallias and is a good indicator of water quality. Masdevallias respond well to yearly repotting.

--END