OrchidSafari
General Meeting and Quick Orchid Judging
Moderators: Kathy Barrett and Marilyn Light
January 10, 2001

Kathy_in_N_Calif
Welcome to the New Year, as Lois said. I want this year at OrchidSafari to be a very good one. I hope you've had some time to think about what value OrchidSafari give you in this hobby.

I have some prepared comments, but in looking at them they are all very heavy items... I feel rather weird just dropping them on everyone.

Sharon_in_Indiana
Go ahead we can take it. :)

Kathy_in_N_Calif
I think OrchidSafari does valuable work. Its archives are chock full of orchid information. The transcripts go to people all over the world who's time zones will not allow them to come and chat, but who read our words none the less. IMHO we are second only to the OLD and the OGD in terms of concentrated solid orchid information. I am very willing to agree with any critics who might say that I have not done much to further the high quality of presentations at OrchidSafari. More about that later.

My own personal opinion is that we've become stagnant in 4 areas:

1) We need new recruits. Fresh Blood. New minds to pick. New people to chat with and learn new things from. I want to start talking up OrchidSafari in other forums and getting people to come talk here rather than ICQ or IRC or other places. Am I nuts? I also need my oldtimers to come back and chat. I also need everyone to be aware of who their audience is. IMHO the audience is the transcripts. What will be sent out to the group. In addition to that I need everyone to be on the alert for lurkers. I've started talking up OrchidSafari on the net. Dropping our name. Trying to intice people to come here and chat. Most of the time newcomers will lurk before jumping in and chatting. If we are always off topic then why come here?

[This is the big one...]

2) We need to stay on topic more. Yes, getting to know one another is also extremely important, but please... can we figure out a way to create a happy balance between the two? Or am I alone in feeling this way?

marylois
No, you are not the only one. IMO topic night should be topic night.

John_in_Arcadia,_CA
You are defintely NOT alone. I have gotten tired of not having an orchid topic to talk about - The weather can last only so long but is better than nothing.

Kathy_in_N_Calif
But its a dual edged sword... we chat, are friends... there is more to life, but... I don't know.. I don't want to squelch friendships

Karen_Rolla,MO
You're probably right, Kathy, although I find the always on topic, nit picky-ness of OGD stuffy (I think that was the one I got email...) I unsubscribed because it was *too* much information for me :-( Also, the whisper feature on this forum makes taking off topic conversations private dicey cause they don't always stay private.

Fleur_in_Tasmania
I agree, if there is a topic we should stick to it. The original format was ½ hour chit chat, then topic.

John_in_Arcadia,_CA
Maybe if we do not have a topic we can suggest a topic to our "Denmother" and then we talk about that for 1 hour. Such as "Paphs" or novelty Catts or Equants.

Kathy_in_N_Calif
3) We need speakers. I do not have the contacts that Lois had in getting people to come and chat. Lois is curtailing her activity in the orchid world due to her health. I'm hoping that if we generate good word of mouth knowlegeable people in the online world will want to come to chat, and then be converted into giving topics for us to listen to. Am I nuts? I'm also hoping that those of you active in your own societies will think about possible speakers for OrchidSafari too. A good example of this was Carol Holdren's recent chat with Andy Easton from the last AOS Trustees meeting. The proposition has been made that we need to get someone in charge of speakers. The Den Mother can't do it all. I agree, and would like to investigate this possibility. I also think we need a webmaster.

Kathy_in_N_Calif
4) Does anyone know of another chat room that will allow us to get a transcript and show pictures? Unless you have personally led a chat you have no idea how confusing it is to present your points, scroll back and pick up questions, answer them, filter extraneous banter, etc in the TTR room. Its compliment to our presenters that they manage as well as they do. Maybe we can figure out a way to continue in our room but make a policy about reasking questions... or heck, I don't know... I just know our presenters aren't jumping at the chance to come back and talk with us....

I have more but I think you get my drift....

marylois
Some questions will always be missed...some are seen and answered, others repeated by others for the sake of the questioner...and those that slip by -- they are/should be picked up on the transcript and answered when the speaker edits.

Sharon_in_Indiana
How about holding questions until topic is over? Speedier that way.

Susan-from-Oregon
Except that without instant feedback the topic "speaker" may feel like he/she is talking to a wall. (?)

Sharon_in_Indiana
You're right, but then too the speaker may be able to get all the info out that he wants and our questions may be answered further on in the topic.

MarilyninOttawa
I thrive on the interaction/Q & A during my presentations. It is very boring for me to write and write some more then write somemore again without some feeedback. Our 300-strong group has a wealth of experience and comments/questions from you (on topic of course) help me communicate with you. This is my style, of course and not necessarily the same for every presenter.

Jade
Susan has a good point about feeling that you are talking to a blank wall but what about having one person as the question gatherer. All questions could be whispered to them and then they could compile them and pass them to the speaker near the end of the presentation. I know that can be a bit difficult. Just a possibility.

John_in_Arcadia,_CA
I can certainly understand your position. As a former teacher I did best when the kids asked questions as they were at least interested then.

marylois
Excellent point Marilyn! The speaker should set the timbre of the evening - tell what he's about, and how he'll go aboout it. And the listener will politely accept the wishes of one who has taken the time to prepare a program.

Kathy_in_N_Calif
And I'll take the rap for some of that equivocation. I am very loath to tell someone what to do or how to do their presentation. I should be more explicit on my instructions to have something prepared and then open it up for questions. Just opening it up often is chaos. Doesn't do the topic service.

marylois
Not instructions, Kath - but an outline of what TTR is capable of and options.

Fleur_in_Tasmania
I also find I can only work if feedback is present. Maybe the way is to ban the use of the "reply to Button" during presentations. That should help out with the transcript.

John_in_Arcadia,_CA
I agree Fleur but sometimes you need to have the reply so that the person can understand what you are asking or talking about.

Fleur_in_Tasmania
When we used the old chat room we were able to direct questions and answers by starting with the person's name. Ie. Kathy did you.................... No confusion.

marylois
Fleur, one could still start with the name of the person addressed here.

Sharon_in_Indiana
Marilyn, I wondered if you might have gotten discouraged by the banter and not been able to present your whole topic. Of course we have a lot of knowledgable people, and I for one like to glean all that I can from this site. You all have helped me tremendously with my growing.

MarilyninOttawa
Banter within reason does not bother me but it could offend some presenters. The major problem excess banter presents is slowing message transfer from the speaker to the audience and vice versa.

CJ-Orchidflowerchild
[About Marilyn's comment re: getting feedback from the audience] I wholeheartedly agree. Sudden long silences w/o comments get you wondering if anyone is still there...

Kathy_in_N_Calif
Remember, however, that sudden long silences might mean the person is typing up a storm!!!

Karen_Rolla,MO
Long silences might also mean we're having trouble w/ the room or the net. That's happened before. I think we need to suggest that speakers have their speech typed up so they can cut and paste. Saves a lot of time and typing.

Kathy_in_N_Calif
Karen, I'll lose speakers with that. Most people are really busy. I'll suggest that people who are already on the lecture circuit that might have something already prepared can cut and paste it into the format... but truthfully I don't think many are computer literate. Another major stumbling block.

janetteh
Kathy, that is true about computer literate. I know of one person that I would love to have speak. Have asked them but they declined and I think that someone else asked them too. They just are comfortable with all of this real time chat. They will email you with any info you request, but just can't deal with real time chats where they are the speaker.

John_in_Arcadia,_CA
Could someone do the computer work for them while they sit alongside?

Susan-from-Oregon
Good idea. .......Theres no way I'd have been confident to lead a topic without logging in a lot of time sitting in and seeing how our chat works.

janetteh
I don't think that this person has anyone to do it at his home, and I can't imagine him asking anyone.

jim4eq
My friend won't even consort with "demon machines which steal people's souls"

jim4eq
One problem with [getting and keeping] repeat speakers is that some people arent used to computer style chatting. I know of at least one vendor who won't even get email, much less go online for speaking. Others get confused by the format, the questions shooting back and forth, etc. Also, depending on the time lag of different people, sometimes questions are asked from 5 minutes ago, and to go back takes too long and breaks the flow of the presentation. When I have slow modem problems, I don't ask questions.

CJ-Orchidflowerchild
I agree, we do need to stay on topic more (this from the king of off-topicedness...). It really does discourage newcomers... Actually, we can set up an off-topic room...

Jade
There is still the message mailbox option on this site if people become familiar with it. That may be a better way to handle offside comments. Whisper is much too iffy.

Sharon_in_Indiana
Lois, what is that email thing you were talking about? Maybe those of us that haven't realized it was a part of this could be taught how to use it.

Karen_Rolla,MO
Sharon, I think Lois is talking about the little mailboxes by some of our names. You just have to sign up for it on TTR

marylois
Not I - personally, I feel talk off topic would better be handled by AOL or Yahoo Messenger - outside the realm of the chatroom which needs all its resources during chat/photos.

Karen_Rolla,MO
Sorry, Lois :-) Misunderstood. The suggestion about the other instant message systems. I don't particularly like the TTR IM thing.

Sharon_in_Indiana
AOL Instant messenger would really solve the whisper problem. And it's free to use. And you don't have to have AOL to get it.

Fleur_in_Tasmania
Steve and I used to have ICQ up in the background, we were able to talk about the topic or anything else we felt like. It has the benifit of allowing multiple "chatters" although more than three is hard to handle.

Jade
I mentioned the mailboxes and have used them on occasion but use AIM more often as a back comment solution. Much less disruptive to the topic.

Kathy_in_N_Calif
OK, since I dropped the bomb shall we take the points one by one?

Does everyone agree that what we are trying to do here is worthwhile???

Fleur_in_Tasmania
Yes.

John_in_Arcadia,_CA
YES IT IS WORTH WHILE!!! (oops key lock on!)

Sharon_in_Indiana
yes.

jim4eq
It is definitely worthwhile.

Jade
I find OS a really important part of my orchid experience. I know when I have a
problem I can ask OSers and feel I am getting their best advice.

Kathy_in_N_Calif
OK great! To echo Susan's point about 'talking to a wall' sometimes I think the transcripts etc are just going out into space... It was very gratifying to get some of the responses I received. I have those on a webpage - edited so the people are annonymous... and maybe I'll let you see some comments from the past speakers so you can see us as other do...

John_in_Arcadia,_CA
Yes I would like that.

CJ-Orchidflowerchild
I think it is very worthwhile, but newbies don't really show up enough, for a variety of reasons... I see it this way, the format is awkward, but I am willing to manage for the pictures capability. Further, I was told by another hobbyist that we seem to be unwelcoming... We need to work on being able to pull them into the fold, as opposed to seeming standoffish.

ClareinLA
I agree CJ. We are unwelcoming.

CJ-Orchidflowerchild
I guess part of it is the "go to user prefernces" bit... The format is frustrating enough without us all chatting amongst ourselves...

Karen_Rolla,MO
I don't know that I would agree that we are unwelcoming to newbies or newcomers. I didn't find that to be true, and I think we go out of our way to welcome new people and bring them into the group.

janetteh
I think that people interested in joining in on one of the chats should be encouraged to send an email to one of the leaders. The way how this room works could be explained to them before they arrive. It is crazy trying to figure out how to get the messages to come up when it doesn't automatically scroll. I think that a lot of people log on and they can't figure out the mechanics of how to participate in a chat, are discouraged, and leave. Don't know how this could be handled but there has got to be a way. The opening page with the logo is helpful but maybe a few more instructions could be added.

marylois
I feel this is the best room around...where else would you be able to download the transcript after the meeting???? Where else do pix load as well???? It's not the room, it's we who use/misuse it. If anything is outlawed - it should be "whisper". If we arre talking asides, or surfing other rooms, are we listening, asking questions, participating????

[italics mine --KB]

And are we mindful of those who do not have DSL lines and Pentium III/IV??? How fast do we need it?

Kathy_in_N_Calif
Can I get a witness! But what I hate is the fact that the posts are lost once the chat button is hit. Hard to reply to many things at once. Recall them all, AND carry on your topic at the same time...

John_in_Arcadia,_CA
I personally do not feel that we are unwelcoming to newbies. As soon as I see a NEW USER on I whisper to them how to add their name so that we all know who they are.
They do seem to appreciate that as they have told me so.

Karen_Rolla,MO
Agreed.

CJ-Orchidflowerchild
Karen, I don't think it is US particularly, but the way we are all so familiar. Newbies don't always want to break in, they feel they wouldn't be part of the group...

Sharon_in_Indiana
But don't we have to know the newbies are there to welcome them?

Kathy_in_N_Calif
Just be on the lookout for lurkers!!! Check 'who's on ' periodically.
Janette, email me with your suggestions for additions to the opening page.

MarilyninOttawa
I can appreciate this unwelcoming feeling but it is difficult to define just what is the root cause. We are not unwelcoming individually but may project a group image. This is partly because of our appreciation of staying on topic. Telling the newbie that they should keep quiet and pay attention to the topic is not at all welcoming. I for one would prefer to integrate the newbie into the conversation. They may be new to OS but that does not mean that they know nothing.

Susan-from-Oregon
When a total newcomer shows up smack dab in the middle of a Paph topic, asking about the yellowing on his Dendrobium, its hard not to seem off-putting.

Steve_in_the_Adirondacks
That's the time to fire up the Whisper button and keep them going.

ClareinLA
But that's who we need to grab. They may not be interested in Paphs, but will learn alot on all the other topics.

Susan-from-Oregon
I know. Its just hard to be very very gracious when you have to tell someone that we are not open to his question, just now.

Karen_Rolla,MO
Well, Susan, what would you do in a society meeting if someone walked in during a presentation and started asking questions about something? Take them aside and explain what was going on to them, wouldn't you? And it wouldn't be considered rude. That's what we do here, really.

Karen_Rolla,MO
Well, I will immediately whisper to the newbie, welcoming them and saying we're listening to a topic, which will last abt. so long, then room will open up for questions. I'll whisper to them as long as it takes to get them comfortable...

Susan-from-Oregon
Excellent. Do most of them hang around a bit?

Karen_Rolla,MO
Usually for the evening. I've also talked several into the room after they messaged me using the TTR mailbox. Sometimes it takes almost an hour, hooking up w/ AIM or something like that to talk more easily. I don't think they've come back much, though....

CJ-Orchidflowerchild
It isn't so much those that come right on out and say stuff, but the lurkers... They are too shy at times to jump in...

marylois
CJ/Karen: Perhaps by "standoffish" they really mean "self-involved" - you know three or four private conversatioons going on when they arrive.

10birch_Paul,_Saginaw,_Mi
Good evening all.. I have been lurking around and following the conversation. The members of the Safari are very friendly and always willing to help. I feel that some of us are "old" orchid growers and forget that someone new may be new into orchids. That person has to give some info in order for the group to help him it is a two way street

It is like any group, you have to welcome them, explain the ground rules and guide them along until they know what they are doing. It might take time, but it is gooing to prove good P.R.

Karen_Rolla,MO
Which, I think, *is* done.

jim4eq
Another idea would be to have one or two people as our 'newbie wranglers'. That way, if I come in and ask where to cut a phal spike, I won't have 397,812 people saying "wait til later".

Kathy_in_N_Calif
Newbie Wranglers!! I like it!!!

janetteh
One other thing that I would like to see (and maybe I am being picky) is each night someone being the official greeter. Each time when someone logs on we have 15 people who have to tell them hello. Couldn't we have just one person whose job it is to greet people as they arrive and all of the rest of us rest our little fingers.

CJ-Orchidflowerchild
Kathy, what about a set day and time each month to have someone here to help newcomers learn the ropes of TTR? Have the people that are new send a message to the person so that they aren't sitting forever...but you know...

Susan-from-Oregon
I wonder if we should have a basic culture / beginners series of lectures to make new folks feel at home. When I first came to OrchidSafari, I was a little intimidated by the advanced knowledge in the group. And I had been growing for nearly 20 years!

Kathy_in_N_Calif
Moving on, so since we are all going to stay on topic as our New Year's Resolution how will we do that? AOL/ IM on the side? Will someone show us all how that is done? (Notice how I get a request for a topic night worked in here!!!)

John_in_Arcadia,_CA
I can't use AOL IM. I had to quit as I was getting all sorts of things I didn't want!!

CJ-Orchidflowerchild
I think it needs to be a more universal thing... We need something uniform. Can we put a link to an IM service on the welcome page?

Kathy_in_N_Calif
If someone can figure out one that is universal.

ClareinLA
Excuse me for being dense her. I have always felt that we did keep on topic during discussion.

CJ-Orchidflowerchild
Well, i was thinking Yahoo IM or something. Certainly not ICQ...too many pop-ups... And all of us would have to be on there as well as offer a list of screennames... That would be an ask-recieve type of thing as we couldn't just put our YM names out there online...

Kathy_in_N_Calif
You and Jim work on it for me. How's that for delegation.

Kathy_in_N_Calif
Has anyone any ideas as to how long a chat should last?? I've never put a time limit on one... I probably should... It used to be one hour, but I kinda let the topic go on. Sometimes too long. Should I tell speakers that they should prepare for an hour, nad if interest is there we can ask if s/he'd stay a bit longer or come back?

Fleur_in_Tasmania
A good idea. An hour is usualy long enough but if members are interested it will naturally continue past this time

marylois
When approaching new speaker, suggest saying 1/2 to one hour...can go a bit longer.
We have had times when it went to long and those present begged for continuation...and we have had speakers come back to finish. Play by ear, den mother.

Susan-from-Oregon
Jeez, Hate to put on limits. Those 2.5 hour topics are usually long because they're AWESOME!

Karen_Rolla,MO
An hour is a good block of time for me. Also, I think the speaker can hit the high points in an hour, then go into the details the group asks about after the official time expires.

CJ-Orchidflowerchild
I think so, because once I get going, well...four hours last time...

MarilyninOttawa
I wonder what would be considered the ideal combination of topic, level and % discussion by those now present? Species, Hybrids, alliance, culture, show, conservation? Beginner, intermediate, advanced?

John_in_Arcadia,_CA
An hour starting promptly and ending within the time limit is best. If things are going well the speaker can be asked to come back. Too long a time gets very tiring for some of us.

janetteh
It is hard to get through everything in an hour. I know the time I did it, I went as fast as I could and ended up cutting three pictures so that I could get through in 1.5 hours. If it is an interesting topic and people start asking questions, it would really be hard to get through in an hour.

10birch_Paul,_Saginaw,_Mi
I think that the topic should be for one and half hours with the last half for chatter. I would like to know what time everyone signsin and news comers that sign in at 9:00 feel that they are late. Conversation is well under way. I feel that nothing shoould start until 9:00 eastern

Sharon_in_Indiana
How about having the speaker prepare for 45 minutes with a chance for all of us to talk about the topic after? I'm not saying do away with the questions during the topic.

ClareinLA
Yes, one hour should be max. They can always go into another session.

Jade
For a formal topic an hour is good. If there are lots of questions it will go longer on its own. If it is such a hot topic maybe we can cajole the speaker to return for an oncore.

Sharon_in_Indiana
Okay, I give in. An hour it is. LOL

MarilyninOttawa
As to time frame, I have observed two peaks of participation. One at the scheduled beginning and one about an hour later, mostly from the west coast. We may want to have it 60-75 minutes so that some are not left out entirely.

John_in_Arcadia,_CA
I am afraid that too much time on any one topic drives peopel away. I don't grow many species and I get tired of hearing too much about them but then there are those who can't stand hybrids and I can appreciate their feelings.

10birch_Paul,_Saginaw,_Mi
I think that the topic should be finished in the alloted time frame. There has to be too much repetition to get everyone up to speed next time it comes around.

CJ-Orchidflowerchild
That can be alieviated easily. A simple "see the transcript" when it comes out... If you miss a regular OS meeting, they don't tell you everything that happened the next time...

jim4eq
Or split the topic further. Instead of all catts, just unifoliate then bifoliate in speech part deux. Also, a reference to the transcript of part one included in the email (if finished, speaker has to get busy.)

John_in_Arcadia,_CA
That is a great idea!! As a former teacher, I know that one hour is the real limit for most people's attention span. Yes we want more but can't really comprehend all that in one block of time.

10birch_Paul,_Saginaw,_Mi
The topic of the night may not interest you, but listen and you can always glean some pearl from the talk.. I'm still learning and Iv'e gathered a lot on orchids that I didn't know existed

Kathy_in_N_Calif
OK, I'll tell them an hour but with questions be prepared to stay a bit longer (fudge
factor) I like Paul's idea about starting on time. Just remember MY watch is when time
starts... LOL!!!! (Kidding!! Just Kidding!!) but I'm serious about topics starting on time. Which brings up anothe peeve by one of my responders.... READ THE HANDOUTS!! If there are changes in schedules or topics being shifted to Sats instead of Weds you will find the info there!

marylois
Read the handouts. Right! Regulars coming in on topic and saying "what's the topic?" sucks.

10birch_Paul,_Saginaw,_Mi
I always read the handouts but when I come on at 9:00 eastern, I way behind in the conversation and leave. That is the way that a beginner could feel

janetteh
Usually by 9 EST all that has gone on is chit chat about the weather and various other topics. Nothing generally about orchids.

Kathy_in_N_Calif
Paul, topics start at 9:00 eastern. People show up early to chat. But I take your point.

marylois
And after all this discussion, we are back to our standing rules, and how we have TRIED to do topics from the start.

Kathy_in_N_Calif
LOL!! Too True, Lois!! I have one last prepared statement then I'm done... ready for it??

"Luckily I've gotten a good response from people all over the world with good ideas for
upcoming topics. A few involve multi part dicussions on greenhouses or genera of a certain part of the world. The Den speciosum group of Australian dendrobes. The IPA.. There are several more. I'm very encouraged to have this input, because my well had run dry. Let's face it, I'm not very imaginative. I'm a good worker, but creativity isn't my strong suit. So I need all the help I can get. Input!! I need your input!! And sources for people to contact to fill those speaker positions, all of which are still open and available. My main stumbling block is that many people are afraid of the computer or are afraid they can't type good enough to come and chat.

I thank everyone who has helped me over this past year. Everyone who has thought up a topic for me. Or has given me a name to pursue. "

Zeynep
Kathy, your last statement sounds like you are QUITING... Am I getting that right?

Kathy_in_N_Calif
No, not quitting, just admiting that I know last year wasn't up to snuff and that I'm hoping with your help it will be better. I need resource people and topics..

There, that's it. Finito. And its 10:00 eastern and just about time to start the judging...

MarilyninOttawa
Hello everyone This judging appreciation session is designed to draw your attention to plant and flower characteristics that can make a plant a winner. Culture matters a lot. However great its potential, an orchid cannot perform if it is not grown well. Water, nutrients, light and day length, temperature range and air movement all are important factors.

Our first specimen is Phal. Golden Sparkle 'OV' AM/AOS (venosa x Orange Glow). This grex has four awards that I know of. Complete details are available in Awards Quarterly and Wildcatt. We do not know which Phal. venosa was used to make the hybrid. Awarded clones have had flowers colored greenish yellow, mustard yellow, barred yellow and concolor golden yellow as in the illustrated clone 'OV' AM/AOS 82 points. This plant bore 12 flowers and 2 buds on one infloresence which is a good flower count for a venosa hybrid. Flower dimensions were comparable or greater than previous awards.

janetteh
This one doesn't look as if it has any venosa in it.

MarilyninOttawa
When you look at this picture, consider the color of the right hand flower to be closer to what was reality. This is a very yellow color!

The three other awards have gone to 'Top Brass' AM 80 points with 6 full flat star-shaped green yellow flowers on one inflorescence. Spread = 5.8 cm [ 5.8 cm = ~2 1/4 inches]

'18 Carat' HCC 76 points for 11 mustard yellow flowers on one inflorescence. Light rose stripes on segments. Good flower count for a venosa hybrid. Spread 5.7 cm

'Copper Lime' HCC 77 points for 2 flowers and 12 buds on 3 inflorescences. Color mustard yellow with soft brown concentric bars and spots. Spread 6.1 cm

ClareinLA
I would loved to have seen that!

Kathy_in_N_Calif
Well, I know over time the yellows have been getting better. Less green and better yellows

marylois
...clearer yellows...getting rid of the spots and bars has been a long time coming.

ClareinLA
I think it takes forever to get a good primary color.

jim4eq
Yes, very nice solid yellow and strong color rather than washed out.

CJ-Orchidflowerchild
Clare, it does, especially with dominance/codominace/inheritance...

ahorchid
From picture looks like it has very good texture also

marylois
...too little substance never a problem with this breeding - almost always heavy substance - fleshiness at ridges not liked by some.

MarilyninOttawa
The illustrated clone had a flower spread of 6.2 cm. The texture was satiny as opposed to glossy as in 'Copper Lime'. Good yellow Phals are a nice addition to collections. Often they are fragrant too!

Susan-from-Oregon
Very flat and symetrical too

CJ-Orchidflowerchild
*CJ like orange (solid, not washed out or blush) phals*

MarilyninOttawa
Promeneas are delightful miniature plants that if well grown can produce spectacular specimens. To merit a cultural award, foliage should be in excellent condition and flowering quantity in proportion to the size and capacity of the plant. Certain clones will outperform others and these are to be prized for their potential for award and for the qualities which they may pass on to their progeny.

Promenea xanthina is a floriferous species. Normally there is one flower per spike as in the illustrated specimen, 'Jardin Botanique de Montreal' CCM/AOS 85 points. This plant bore 74 flowers and one bud on 75 inflorescences at the time of award. Another CCM has been awarded to 'Glee', a much smaller plant but with great potential. 'Glee' carried 14 flowers and 2 buds on 8 inflorescences or 2 flowers per inflorescence. Six of the 10 pseudobulbs carried flower spikes.

Here is Promenea xanthina 'Jardin Botanique de Montreal' CCM 85 points.

Promeneas can be challenging to grow well. Their foliage is seemingly delicate but very showy if it can be kept in good condition. What the plant looks like is important when considering a cultural award. The flowers are pretty nice too!

Kathy_in_N_Calif
"Certain clones will out perform others and these are to be prized for their potential for award and for the qualities which they may pass on to their progeny." -- Marilyn, what are these characteristics? Or is that a topic for another time??

MarilyninOttawa
Characteristics to look for are the propensity to produce more than one spike per bulb, to bloom on every bulb, to produce two flowers per infloresence, to bloom consistently. Flowers should be well colored and shaped according to type, open rather than too cupped, with long enough flower stems to permit the blooms to adequately display above the foliage.

Kathy_in_N_Calif
Yep, that description fits that awarded one!!

Jade
Is that yours Marilyn?

MarilyninOttawa
I have been growing some species and hybrids. I select for vigor and floriferous even at first blooming. Well grown plants get better with age or so they say.

Kathy_in_N_Calif
They are subject to 'damping off' Or at least so I'm told. Mine have been hard to establish. (Tell me to shut up if I'm leading the conversation astray) Well, we gotta talk about these sometime. I love them and am interested in getting some, imported if I have to.

Susan-from-Oregon
I love em too. Do they need to be warm?

Kathy_in_N_Calif
I've read two things, cooler, and then intermedialte... so I really have no idea. Also I'm
confused about the light reqs...

Susan-from-Oregon
Oooh! Then theres a chance.... I really admire that P. stapeloides.

MarilyninOttawa
Promeneas do seem to respond positively to a good temperature differential. Warm in the day is fine if it is cool at night. We are talking of 75F day/60F night range. Be careful with water quality. Deionized or rainwater is best.

Sharon_in_Indiana
Marilyn, how do you find all that out when you are looking for a plant?

jim4eq
Sharon, buy when in bloom, or buy a couple seedlings and hope one is good enuff for show.

MarilyninOttawa
Sharon, I buy a flask or raise the plants from seed. The first to bloom may be but are not always the most vigorous. My best Prom. Meadow Gold was the first to bloom. It showed signs of a second bud on its first spike.

Kathy_in_N_Calif
Begs the question how long from flask to flower?

MarilyninOttawa
Promeneas take about 3-4 years, Phals might be blooming in 2.5 years but not at their peak, Paphs possibly 4 years alhough my Paph. Miss Faith hanbury seedlings took about 5-6 years to bloom. A lot will depend upon growing conditions.

MarilyninOttawa
Paph. Miss Faith Hanbury (glaucophyllum x niveum) is an old hybrid (1915) remade recently with superior parents. Flower color ranges from greenish through milky white, always with reddish purple markings. 'Pretty Maiden' AM/AOS 80 points which is illustrated, has very good size and shape and a most pleasing color combination. This plant had one flower and one bud on one inflorescence at the time of award which could be expected given the parentage. Attractive flowers and equally pleasing marbled foliage make this grex one to look out for.

Fleur_in_Tasmania
I like that pink Paph.

MarilyninOttawa
Remember that your preference counts a lot when selecting plants for your collection. Unless awards are your only goal, keep in mind that floriferousness and color/pattern that pleases you will make the chosen plant a winner in your eyes. Vigor is always difficult to judge without growing a plant for awhile and almost impossible to assess during the few hours under judging scrutiny.

ClareinLA
Marylin, similar to acquiring artwork.

jim4eq
I like that paph, a lot of niveum. One of my favorites, the light colored ones are my favorites!

MarilyninOttawa
Exactly Clare.

Susan-from-Oregon
Cept artwork doesn't die if you select an inapropriate piece......I know, I know. Back to topic. I spank myself.

Susan-from-Oregon
Oh that IS nice! Is it a sequential bloomer (nearly always in bloom) like glaucophyllum?

MarilyninOttawa
The illustrated clone had one flower and one bud. I do not believe that they are continuously sequential - 2 0r maybe 3 flowers might be possible. I do not believe that we would want too many flowers open at a time. The flowers are quite large and full (This one measured 8.5 cm spread) and could become crowded. [That's 3 1/3 inches across.]

Caroline,_Oregon
Big flower! Thats one reason I like paphs.

MarilyninOttawa
I wanted to point out during this brief discussion that we can all be judges in our own right. Not accredited of course but still quite capable of recognizing excellence. Paph. Miss Faith Hanbury has likely been remade by many hybridizers. It is a popular and reliable cross. I would check out the various Paph suppliers to see what is in stock.

While 'Pretty Maiden'measured 8.5 cm spread, 'Knob Creek' measured 10.5 cm or just over 4inches. Its color was quite different with the dorsal sepal being green overall with dark reddish purple vertical striations, edged creamy white.

That is the end of my brief presentation of three awarded orchids. We can do this again sometime if you like.

ClareinLA
Yes, I liked very much. Thank you Marylin. Again soon please.

jim4eq
I like. Often looking at older awards and why they were awarded is good.

Sharon_in_Indiana
Thank you Marilyn. You always manage to make me hungrier for more orchids. :)

MarilyninOttawa
In our judging region, we are encouraged to bring plants for screening prior to judging. It is a worthwhile experience as it shows you what the judges are looking for in a particular specimen. If you can, sit as an observer during a judging session. It is a great learning experience.

jim4eq
Kathy, another good idea for a topic might be for some of the student judges here to take pics of the flowers they judge, and then discuss why it was passed/awarded. I noticed last night at our judging that some of the plants passed had minor flaws that were instructive.

Susan-from-Oregon
Recall those Saturday night Fun-judging sessions we had. I was pretty amazed at how close we were in our judicial opinions ,to one another and to the AOS jugdes.

ahorchid
very nice marilyn. thats what i like about this room . we can load pictures and
admire what others have grown. makes us strive to do better

ClareinLA
I like that idea very much.

Jade
Marilyn. That was interesting. Doing mini presentations on judging make it easier for us non judges to focus. The longer judging presentations can get a bit much at times.

Caroline,_Oregon
I would be interested in seeing pictures of those that don't quire make it. This from someone who knows nothing about judging.

Kathy_in_N_Calif
OK, Is that a wrap Marilyn?? Time to open the room to chat??

MarilyninOttawa
IMHO, this overall session ran very smoothly.Kathy, you kept things rolling and on time - important for me and for the others too. Congratulations! I was waiting to take up the reins when you signalled and kept to our pre-arranged schedule. All of the comments during the judging presentation were quite appropriate. I am happy that chatters are intrigued and not shy about asking questions. Good night everyone and thank you.

Kathy_in_N_Calif
Thank you Marilyn!! Good Night!

--The End